Provi, peni, klopodi ktp

[David Wolff]

Hi all,

At a recent weekly meeting, we had a discussion about some related
Esperanto words. I've found myself usually translation a phrase like,

"I'll try to remember the word 'hidrohxero'." (*)

with "provi". Rich Ware suggested "peni". I checked the dictionaries
and now I'm more confused...

* "provi": definitely seems to be defined as more "experimental": we'll
try it and if it explodes we'll have learned better.

* "peni": "take pains to"... sounds too emphatic.

* "klopodi": struggle? The Movement is a struggle against ignorance,
linguistic hegemony, and apathy, but remembering a word shouldn't be
*that* much of a struggle.

* "strebi": strive. Like "klopodi", seems too strong. Same for
"lukti."

* "labori": hmm, technically correct, I suppose...

What do you think for this everyday, colloquial use of "try"?

(*) I am very disappointed! The Wells dictionary doesn't have this!

Thanks --

David

(Remove "xx" to reply.)

[ktoy]

Here's what I've gathered:

provi - to test (out)

peni - to endeavour

klopodi - to take steps to

Ni provos gxin, kaj se gxi ne funkcios, ni penos klopodi trovi pli bonan
rimedon. :-)


--
Lunjo
***@allstream.net
http://esperanto.ca/toronto

Post by David Wolff
Hi all,
At a recent weekly meeting, we had a discussion about some related
Esperanto words. I've found myself usually translation a phrase like,
"I'll try to remember the word 'hidrohxero'." (*)
with "provi". Rich Ware suggested "peni". I checked the dictionaries
and now I'm more confused...
* "provi": definitely seems to be defined as more "experimental": we'll
try it and if it explodes we'll have learned better.
* "peni": "take pains to"... sounds too emphatic.
* "klopodi": struggle? The Movement is a struggle against ignorance,
linguistic hegemony, and apathy, but remembering a word shouldn't be
*that* much of a struggle.
* "strebi": strive. Like "klopodi", seems too strong. Same for
"lukti."
* "labori": hmm, technically correct, I suppose...
What do you think for this everyday, colloquial use of "try"?
(*) I am very disappointed! The Wells dictionary doesn't have this!
Thanks --
David
(Remove "xx" to reply.)

[Chris FORNO]

Post by David Wolff
Hi all,
At a recent weekly meeting, we had a discussion about some related
Esperanto words. I've found myself usually translation a phrase like,
"I'll try to remember the word 'hidrohxero'." (*)
with "provi". Rich Ware suggested "peni". I checked the dictionaries
and now I'm more confused...

This was something I had a lot of difficulty with (and to some extent
still do). While at the Tokai Seminario I received the nickname "Peni"
because I used the word too often. So I asked some of the more
experienced speakers there about the words "peni" and "klopodi". The
general consensus was that "peni" conveys a stronger meaning than
"klopodi". (Whether this is true or not I'm still unsure of.)

My feeling after reading through NPIV is that "klopodi" is used for
effort exerted over a longer period of time than "peni". Also, the word
"zorgi" shows up often in the definitions for "klopodi".

So, here is how they all sound to me:

"Mi provos memori la vorton."
"I'll try my hand at remembering the word." as in, "What the heck, it
can't hurt."

"Mi penos memori la vorton."
"I'll make an effort (in the future) to remember the word." ("But I'm
not going to worry about it until then.")

"Mi klopodos memori la vorton."
"I'll make pains to remember the word." (Perhaps better would be "Mi
klopodadas memori la vorton."

So, the best answer? Probably not to try to translate this literally.

"Mi parkerigos la vorton."
"Mi enkapigos la vorton."
"Mi cerbzorgos pri la vorto."

Please take my advice with a pinch of salt as I'm a beginner too. I'd
like to see what Don has to say on this.

-Chris

[N***@nospamPanix.com]

Post by David Wolff
Hi all,
At a recent weekly meeting, we had a discussion about some related
Esperanto words. I've found myself usually translation a phrase like,
"I'll try to remember the word 'hidrohxero'." (*)
with "provi". Rich Ware suggested "peni". I checked the dictionaries
and now I'm more confused...
* "provi": definitely seems to be defined as more "experimental": we'll
try it and if it explodes we'll have learned better.

English speakers are not usually taught the less common meaning of
'prove', which is indeed to test or 'try out'. We see this usage
in phrases like 'proving grounds' or 'to prove one's mettle' as
well as proverbs like 'the proof of the pudding is in the eating.'
(the more common version nowadays, 'the proof is in the pudding',
of course, makes no sense at all). It is cognate to the word
'probe'. Remembering this makes it much easier to use Esperanto
'provi' in its intended sense.